Page 44 - Studio International - October 1969

only to sculpture. ting it. In the case of three-dimensional work
GB: When did you leave metal sculpture? the thinking procedure is at all times to
What were your breakaway materials, and enhance the particular identity of personality
what determined the choice? of the piece involved. I have become less
BF: I left metal sculpture in 1965, though I interested in the autonomous object. If you
have gone back to it occasionally since. The don't have an autonomous object, the most
breakaway material, as you call it, was curtain tempting thing to do is to apply some system
material; I cut the cloth into arbitrary shapes, of order. But this might well have more to do
sewed them, and gravity-filled them with with the systems themselves than with the na-
plaster. I wasn't looking for any particular ture of the physical existence of the materials.
shapes or looking for a way of projecting my I think the visual existence of the materials
head into the world of objects. I liked more has been central to my interest in sculpture.
the idea that these shapes virtually made Objects and their roles in the world, and their
themselves. They were extremely evocative. configurations, are part of the interest as well.
When I became aware of this, say, in the more The issue is light. Without light, this world
final stages, approaching a statement, I would ceases to exist. In fact, maybe it is not objects
tease them along and thicken the plot. What themselves or the shapes they are that is
determined the choice was that cloth allowed visually exciting, but the distances and spaces
me free play with the shape. between them or caught within them.
Later, I was able to avoid the unnecessary I have taken light absolutely for granted and
evocative aura surrounding free shape. have always standardized its presence in the
GB: Why was it desirable to get rid of it? The proximity of any objects, when obliged to think
evocation was never precise association. about it; and I also remember excluding any
: The association isn't central to sculpture light play from the surface of my objects, as a
itself, just to the way we recognize things. matter of course. After all, if light is being
GB: But does association necessarily disturb, reflected from the surface, it is not the surface
distort, or replace the central issues of sculp- you see but the blinding description of it.
ture? Why can't you have the central issues GB: But light modifies appearances even in a
and association? controlled environment. For instance, colour
BF: You can have the central issues plus is light. The materials of your sculpture are
association. But as I said earlier, I was hoping often coloured. Are these hues chosen with
to effect separation for the purposes of clarity. any particular reference to light involvement?
GB: What, for you, is central to sculpture? BF: In a controlled situation, it is not the light
BF: Shape is. It can be a long, thin shape; it that modifies appearances, but the actual
can be a machine shape. All objects are taken densities and make-ups of the materials. For
care of there, including natural ones. me personally, the statement 'colour is light'
GB: You speak of shape rather than of form. has no meaning. Light remains white for me
Is there a difference in your mind? unless somehow interfered with. I have only
BF: Form sounds an educated perception of used colour consciously to make modifications
shape. I don't like already to be educated. If in sculptural shape on one or two occasions.
you don't allow that you get something back Colour for me is a structural element apart
from what you are doing that you didn't from the sense of light—inherent in the material.
already know, you have no turnover. Your GB: What determines the choice ? Do you use 6
situation doesn't grow. The only difficulty is colour expressionistically? Four case 2'67, Ringl 1'67, Rope (Gr2 Sp 60) 6'67 1967
Square columns 7 ft 6 in. x 8 ft 6 in. Rope, canvas
in being able to recognize what it is you are BF: To use colour expressionistically is maybe sand and linoleum
getting back. the most feeble thing one can do with colour. 7
Line 1968
GB: What I was asking was how you see shape, In the line piece—which I didn't fully under- 42 in. x 16 ft x 1 in. Felt and string
you personally. Your sculpture is not always, stand myself—I carried more sense of structure 8
Heap 1'68 1968
or even frequently, volumetric. Sometimes it to the decisions of placement. In these decisons 1 ft 6 in. x 2 ft 6 in. radius. Sand and hessian
is attenuated—one might say drawn—the rope of placement, I found myself in a situation I 9
pieces, for instance. Sometimes it is quite flat, don't normally encourage. But anyway the Sacking 2'68/69 1968/9
48 x 66 x 3 in. Sacking and 4 x 2 in. timber
flat to the floor or to the wall; it may have the piece turned up with something that was I0
quality of relief. And sometimes it is free- pretty interesting on its own. June 2'69 1969
114 x 204 x 48 in. Flax and wood
hanging in space. These responses are at some GB: To what degree does your choice of
remove from the sculptural tradition of the materials and colour reflect an aesthetic
three-dimensional, volumetric, mass-exploiting concern ?
works of the past. At the same time, your BF: My answer is that it would be crazy to
sculpture is substantially different, say, from structure every response in detail, without
the gestural sculpture of someone like Caro, wishing to exclude some things that are natu-
where, so to speak, one element is made to rally available. To be very decisive in this area
seem an authoritative extension of another. would be to begin to construct an aesthetic,
Then, too, you are not making organic sculp- always a limiting thing.
ture, that is, sculpture as a self-declaring and OB: But your work nevertheless shows common-
self-sustaining structure. place materials—rope, cloth, sand—to advan-
BF: Actually, I don't tend to make the inter- tage. The finesse with which you use these
pretation of shape. There is no personal way things, expose them, contributes, I think, to
of seeing it, only a personal way of interpre- one's pleasure in your sculpture.