Page 21 - Studio International - November 1965

3 British artists in New York

American painters and English painters who are also But I would expect that an original artist from a country
under the same label. So the association of some pop other than America might show characteristics differ­
elements to some odd radio programme are too general ent from American painting, or he would have to live
and without much significance. here a very long time to produce a very Americanized
Glaser What then. is your feeling about the pop label picture. When I was over here last time I showed some
as it is applied to your work 7 slides of my work to Robert Indiana. His response to
Jones I find myself associated with this group in the them was that my color handling was very similar to
critical discussions of my work. but if these criticisms Dick's and that they looked very English. I had never
hadn't been written I don't think I would have been so really thought of my attitude towards colour in that way
conscious of having a philosophical standpoint that and I think it may be a coincidence or just something
connected my painting with the style called pop art. that happens. But I was interested that someone should
I admit that I have a !iking for things that are specifically identify a use of colour or some other thing as being
related to advertising and commercial reproduction European or English.
processes. and they appear in my work. But I wouldn't Smith I disagree. I think one says a painting looks
say that they are special or that I am emphasizing them American or English because most of the time you know
to make a particular point. It's not my intention to where the artist comes from. Can you think of any
identify with mass-produced objects. I use them really specific manifestations that have gone on in
because I like them from a formal point of view. such America in the last three years that couldn't have been
as thE. uniformity of a painted surface. That my osten­ done in England 7
sible subject matter has included buses. airplanes and Phillips I feel that American paintings, especially the
parachutes is. I think. incidental to their association pop paintings, are about one theme. one image or one
with the actual object. Someone in an article about my story, and English paintings generally have more than
work wrote enthusiastically that some pictures I one thing going on. With my own work, if I paint a girl.
painted conveyed the feeling of what it was like to there may also be a car and a lot of other things all
hurtle around Marble Arch corner on a bus. Well that's related to each other. though not in an anecdotal sense.
fine. but this didn't seem to me to have much to do When Lichtenstein paints a girl. it's just a girl. And so
with the painting. So I take it as it comes. there is a difference in the directness of approach.
Phillips I'm probably more orthodox about pop This kind of thing comes from a European tradition.
imagery in my work in that it is more recognizably pop. The French, for example, use several images simul­
I consciously make a selection from ordinary things taneously.
which I like and then use them as a contemporary Smith This is probably true also in the attitude towards
iconography. But still. my aim is not to make ccmmer,ts the use of material. In this respect my paintings used
or develop a story about the objects I use. I try to to be far more complex than they are now. A shadow
transform them in order to make a painting and I use could have been a box or the three dimensional form
them simply as images. Also. like Allen. I am interested could have been flat and so on. and there were cross
in commercial techniques such as those that give the references all the way. I think this complexity is an
effect of a printed surface. My method of painting element that runs through most British painting. In
leads me to a flat surface or a sort of glossy type Allen's paintings, for instance, a leg is a trunk of a tree
magazine surface. I like the way the paint looks when or a tie or a bosom.
you do it that way. Jones I would have thought that the difference
Glaser Dick. your work seems to move farther away between my painting and American painting is that I
from pop than does Allen's and Peter's. Do you feel a am interested in the interpretations of the mark on the
wide division between their work and your own 7 canvas not only in terms of its appearance as a simple
Smith I think there is a division. but it's one of degree gesture, nor just as a figurative object. but in the
rather than absolute difference. Their talk about the ambiguity between the two. Most of American painting
printed surface and printed material is very much in which is figurative treats the content of the picture in
line with my own thinking. since these effects are an emblematic way, while my figurative forms are
virtually the basis of everything I do. I prefer the quality operating closer to the way they do in the work of the
of printed colour to the quality of painted colour. But I abstract painters over here. So that my subject matter
think my pop references are invisible at the moment. is just a vehicle or an excuse for the picture rather than
even though the paintings I have been doing for the having any special significance.
past few years are based on the idea of mass-production Glaser A final question Do you think that there can
packaging. Now. in fact. I have made these packages be a continuance of some national character in British
physical, or three dimensional, whereas before my painting with this extraordinary rapport going on
paintings were just pictures of packages. Consequently, between British and American painters today 7
my drawing, in a way, is done for me by the con­ Smith I think there will be some painting that one will
struction and all I paint is the configuration on the box. know is British, whether through certain characteristics
Glaser Similar degrees of popular imagery, as are or just by the fact that it was done by somebody from
found in the work of the three of you, are found in Britain. But in this whole discussion our talk has been
American painting. Do you think that in view of the about just a part of the current scene in England; there
similarity of sources and treatment in both British and is so much painting of various kinds going on there.
American painting that their national characteristics, Jones I don't think it will matter very much whether
if there are any, are becoming obscured 7 And do you an artist's work is English or American as long as it
think we might be moving closer to a thoroughly works as a good painting .
International Style in painting 7 Phillips In the final analysis it's not going to matter
Jones I think that if a painter is not very good he could much whether it's American, English or French or
easily assume the characteristics of another style, so anything else. Good painting is going to triumph over
that an English painter could look like an American. any sort of nationalism. ■
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