Page 21 - Studio International - November 1965
P. 21

3  British  artists in  New  York





                                  American  painters  and  English  painters  who  are  also   But I would expect that an original artist from a country
                                  under  the same label.  So the association of  some pop   other than  America  might  show  characteristics  differ­
                                  elements to some odd radio programme are too general   ent  from  American  painting,  or  he  would  have  to  live
                                  and  without  much  significance.                  here  a  very  long  time  to  produce  a  very  Americanized
                                   Glaser What then.  is your feeling about the pop label   picture. When  I was over here last time  I showed some
                                  as it is applied to your work 7                    slides  of  my  work  to  Robert  Indiana.  His  response  to
                                  Jones  I  find  myself  associated  with  this  group  in  the   them  was  that  my  color  handling  was  very  similar  to
                                  critical  discussions  of  my  work.  but  if  these  criticisms   Dick's  and  that  they  looked  very  English.  I  had  never
                                  hadn't been written  I  don't think  I would have been so   really thought of my attitude towards colour in that way
                                  conscious  of  having  a  philosophical  standpoint  that   and  I think it  may be  a  coincidence  or  just something
                                  connected  my  painting  with  the  style  called  pop  art.   that happens.  But I was interested that someone should
                                   I admit that I have a !iking for things that are specifically   identify  a  use  of  colour or some  other thing  as  being
                                  related  to  advertising  and  commercial  reproduction   European or  English.
                                  processes. and they appear in my work.  But  I  wouldn't   Smith  I  disagree.  I  think  one  says  a  painting  looks
                                  say that they are special or that  I  am emphasizing them   American or English because most of the time you know
                                  to  make  a  particular  point.  It's  not  my  intention  to   where  the  artist  comes  from.  Can  you  think  of  any
                                  identify  with  mass-produced  objects.  I  use  them   really  specific  manifestations  that  have  gone  on  in
                                  because  I  like  them from  a formal  point  of  view.  such   America in the last three years that couldn't have been
                                  as thE.  uniformity  of  a  painted  surface.  That my osten­  done in  England 7
                                  sible  subject  matter  has  included buses.  airplanes  and   Phillips  I  feel  that  American  paintings,  especially  the
                                  parachutes  is.  I  think.  incidental  to  their  association   pop paintings,  are about one theme.  one image or one
                                  with the actual object.  Someone in an article about my   story,  and  English paintings generally have  more  than
                                  work  wrote  enthusiastically  that  some  pictures  I   one thing going on. With my own work, if  I paint a girl.
                                  painted  conveyed  the  feeling  of  what  it  was  like  to   there  may  also  be  a  car  and  a  lot  of  other  things  all
                                  hurtle around  Marble Arch corner on a bus.  Well that's   related to each other. though not in an anecdotal sense.
                                  fine.  but  this  didn't  seem  to  me  to  have  much  to  do   When  Lichtenstein paints  a  girl.  it's just a  girl.  And  so
                                  with  the  painting.  So  I  take  it  as  it  comes.   there  is  a  difference  in  the  directness  of  approach.
                                   Phillips  I'm  probably  more  orthodox  about  pop   This  kind  of  thing  comes  from  a  European  tradition.
                                  imagery in my work in that it is more recognizably pop.   The  French,  for  example,  use  several  images  simul­
                                   I  consciously  make  a  selection  from  ordinary  things   taneously.
                                  which  I  like  and  then  use  them  as  a  contemporary   Smith This is probably true also in the attitude towards
                                  iconography.  But still. my aim is not to make ccmmer,ts   the  use  of  material.  In  this  respect  my  paintings  used
                                  or  develop  a  story  about  the  objects  I  use.  I  try  to   to  be  far more complex  than  they  are now.  A shadow
                                  transform  them  in  order  to  make  a  painting  and  I  use   could  have  been  a  box  or  the  three  dimensional  form
                                  them simply as images. Also. like Allen.  I  am interested   could  have been  flat  and so  on.  and there  were cross
                                  in  commercial  techniques  such  as  those  that  give  the   references  all  the  way.  I  think  this  complexity  is  an
                                  effect  of  a  printed  surface.  My  method  of  painting   element  that  runs  through  most  British  painting.  In
                                  leads  me  to  a  flat  surface  or  a  sort  of  glossy  type   Allen's paintings, for instance, a leg is a trunk of a tree
                                  magazine  surface.  I  like  the way the paint looks  when   or a tie or a bosom.
                                  you do it that way.                                Jones  I  would  have  thought  that  the  difference
                                   Glaser  Dick.  your  work  seems  to  move  farther  away   between  my  painting  and  American  painting  is  that  I
                                  from pop  than does Allen's and  Peter's.  Do you feel a   am interested in the interpretations of the mark on the
                                  wide  division  between  their  work  and  your  own 7   canvas not only in terms of its appearance as a simple
                                   Smith  I think there is a division. but it's one of degree   gesture,  nor  just  as  a  figurative  object.  but  in  the
                                  rather  than  absolute  difference.  Their  talk  about  the   ambiguity between the two.  Most of American painting
                                  printed  surface  and  printed  material  is  very  much  in   which  is  figurative  treats  the  content  of  the  picture  in
                                  line  with  my  own  thinking.  since  these  effects  are   an  emblematic  way,  while  my  figurative  forms  are
                                  virtually the basis of everything I do.  I prefer the quality   operating closer to the way  they  do in  the  work  of  the
                                  of printed colour to the quality of painted colour.  But  I   abstract  painters  over  here.  So  that  my  subject  matter
                                  think  my  pop  references  are  invisible  at  the  moment.   is just a vehicle or an excuse for the picture rather than
                                  even  though  the  paintings  I  have  been  doing  for  the   having  any  special  significance.
                                  past few years are based on the idea of mass-production   Glaser  A  final  question  Do  you  think  that  there  can
                                  packaging.  Now.  in  fact.  I  have made  these  packages   be a continuance of some  national  character  in  British
                                  physical,  or  three  dimensional,  whereas  before  my   painting  with  this  extraordinary  rapport  going  on
                                  paintings were just pictures of packages.  Consequently,   between  British  and  American  painters  today 7
                                  my  drawing,  in  a  way,  is  done  for  me  by  the  con­  Smith  I  think there will be some painting that one will
                                  struction and all  I  paint  is the configuration on the box.   know is  British, whether through certain characteristics
                                  Glaser  Similar  degrees  of  popular  imagery,  as  are   or just by the fact that  it was done by somebody from
                                  found  in  the  work  of  the  three  of  you,  are  found  in   Britain.  But in  this whole discussion  our talk has been
                                  American  painting.  Do  you  think  that  in  view  of  the   about just a part of  the current scene  in  England;  there
                                  similarity  of  sources and treatment  in  both  British and   is  so  much  painting of  various  kinds  going  on  there.
                                  American  painting  that  their  national  characteristics,   Jones  I  don't  think it will  matter  very  much  whether
                                  if there  are  any,  are  becoming  obscured 7  And  do  you   an  artist's  work  is  English  or  American  as  long  as  it
                                  think  we  might  be  moving  closer  to  a  thoroughly   works as a good painting .
                                  International Style in  painting 7                 Phillips  In  the  final  analysis  it's  not  going  to  matter
                                  Jones I think that if a painter is not very good he could   much  whether  it's  American,  English  or  French  or
                                  easily  assume  the  characteristics  of  another  style,  so   anything  else.  Good painting  is  going to triumph over
                                  that  an  English  painter  could  look  like  an  American.   any sort of nationalism.          ■
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