Page 33 - Studio International - July August 1968

La lecon de peinture 1919, oil on canvas; 29 x 36f in.
Scottish National Gallery of Modern Art

school of painting without Matisse as a rallying-point. But you both paintings gradually, as they evolved, seemed to go through a process
think that this is really rather an irrelevance? of simplification, where colour and form come into their own. And I
Phillip King: I do. feel one could take his whole life's work, and see this process repeated
Howard Hodgkin: Yes. —right up to the late papiers découpés, which I think are still related to
Andrew Forge: I think that the sense of the figure, of how the figure the figure but much more to do with expressing pure light or colour.
behaves, is an immensely strong factor in one's response to Matisse. Howard Hodgkin: I think you misunderstood me. Because I would
Howard Hodgkin: I agree and I think he was always concerned to agree with what you say. As you were saying, his pictures are end-
represent the figure, and always trying to make forms which would lessly modified towards a more specific form, but I think he was
exist for the figure. But his frankness surely in so many of his pictures never satisfied to then move on to the next painting from the point
is that he doesn't ever pretend to have made such a form. He doesn't where one painting was complete. He had to go back again. Perhaps
believe in any systematic way of representing the figure. And he's during the immense length of his working life he gradually got nearer
never afraid of showing when his form-making faculty has been and nearer to this situation where the reality could be expressed
unable to make something as specific as he needed. In his final with such brevity that the form would exist by itself. But he seems
work, the papiers découpés, many of which are concerned, perhaps to have been always very suspicious of forms which could fall over
more directly than ever before, with representing the figure, he never into being just forms.
reaches a purely 'work-of-art-making' solution. His specific sensations Phillip King: That's quite true. His most abstract works, if one
about the figure at that time or some specific physical reaction that can use that word, are always the most extreme simplification and
he had to the figure at that moment, are included and used in the direct expression of much earlier forms. One almost feels as if the
most extraordinary way. They don't present a classical representation very late, very decorative works were a final expression of wanting to
of the figure; they don't suggest ever, to me at least, a system of forms. paint a bowl of flowers or something, but that it's transposed.
Phillip King: I see the figure much more as a starting-off point; a Howard Hodgkin: I think this is something he always wanted but
way of getting back to the reality of facing painting. He often could never jump towards by any kind of system or any kind of
intended to draw in a traditional way to start off with, but his verbal or intellectual reasoning. To me it seems the most fantastic