Page 17 - Studio International - September 1974

THE MM: But you deciding on this format must have Tweedledum, because nobody thinks about
felt that it was impossible : a single person to be
poor old Tweedledum. I felt it was within the
spirit of the exercise to write in Tweedledee.
objective or olympian enough?
HAYWARD AF: I think somebody could have done that, MM: Did you get any surprise by what came
back?
somebody from the Tate or a critic, Marina
Vaizey or David Thompson, whoever you like
AF: If you are asking me what it was like trying
BIENNALE to think of as being an active critic of English to come to terms with all the stuff that was
painting, would produce something marvellous.
coming back, the first thing I would say is just
However, it really wasn't what I was interested an absolutely incredible sense of excitement and
in doing. I wanted to find a way of showing not wonder at the amount of activity and the depth
only British painting but also what British of dedication and the energy that's being put
painters thought about British painting. I into painting in this country. With unbelievably
wanted to introduce a reflexive element. And little hope of reward when one thinks about the
because I'm also so involved in my own painting degree to which English painting isn't supported
I wanted to set up the possibility of painters by a real painting-loving public.
making their own choice. It's not a new idea. We MM: Would it matter very much if the title was
did something very like it several years running `Aspects of painters working In England'?
with the London Group. I think Richard AF: I think all painting that is done in England,
Hamilton had this idea years ago at the ICA. is very, very English in that all painting done
But my feeling was that it would be fantastically anywhere is formed by the circumstances under
interesting to do it on a vast scale, and fill the which it is done. The structure of this exhibition
Hayward with all sorts of work, like a great slice and the need for it wouldn't have been anything
cut right through the whole anthill of British like as strong if we'd been thinking of
painting. making it in France or West Germany or
MM: What was the direction that you gave America.
these people you'd selected? JM: To return to the selection: there are some
AF: I asked them to name up to ten artists, and very noticeable exceptions.
that every work had to be a painting in a AF: There are a number of giants who aren't in
traditional sense, let's say a flat coloured it. Victor Pasmore didn't agree with my
surface. Also the birthdate of the people they definition of painting as a flat surface of colour.
Andrew Forge discusses his show `Aspects of named was not to be within five years of I think he felt this was a very retrograde
English Painting' at the Hayward Gallery, their own forwards or backwards. This was stipulation to make. Frank Auerbach was
London, 26 September — 17 November 1974 with to exclude the immediate friendship thing another I invited and he said the opposite of
Paul Huxley, Myles Murphy and John McEwen. and exclude the special enmity that you Francis Bacon — Francis didn't say he wouldn't
reserve for your contemporaries. show in it himself — and I hope he will be
JM: Andrew, how did this"show start? PH: Could we go back to the idea of an included. Frank said he had no wish to be in
AF: Well, as you know the Arts Council for exhibition which seems to have been selected by what he called a telephone directory exhibition
several years have been playing with the idea of a more than one person? I think most of us who've `which is a cop-out and always depressing', I
biannual or triannual review of English art. Two sat on committees or felt some effect from think those are his exact works. However, he did
years ago they launched this with Ann committee decisions, think that there's a lot left submit a list and I accepted it and they're all in
Seymour's exhibition. It was a very valuable to be desired about what comes out of them. I the exhibition. There've been several cases like
exhibition but very specialized. My idea was for think there's a lot of feeling amongst artists that this of painters that I would dearly like to be in
an exhibition in which you would have one they would like to see more individual people the exhibition because their absence removes
person chairing the whole enterprise, but willing to stand by their opinion about an any claim that this is a comprehensive survey of
basically the decisions would be made by lots of exhibition or a museum policy. the best in English painting. Ben Nicolson won't
individual painters. So I invited a list of artists AF: Obviously this is a very important point. I be in it for the ridiculous reason that since his
whom I admired and who covered a wide didn't mention that if somebody was named move from Switzerland he hasn't been making
spectrum corresponding more or less with my whose work I knew absolutely nothing about paintings. David Hockney hasn't made any
own tastes, and then invited each of these artists and whose work when I saw it I would feel paintings for three years.
to make further recommendations of names and wouldn't show to the best advantage in an JM: Were the paintings to be done specifically
let the exhibition form itself around this variety exhibition of this kind, I felt I had to reserve the for this exhibition?
of opinions. right to exclude it. AF: Not specifically, but to be representative of
PH: Is it true the Arts Council wanted you to JM: Have you seen all the work which is going the activity of the last two years.
take advice on the exhibition and not to make a into the show? PH: Do you think there is some reluctance from
choice completely of your own? AF: No I haven't. Seventy-five per cent of the artists, especially those who are very established
AF: No, all they asked me to do was to propose names that came forward I knew enough about and very set in their position in the artistic
a way in which the exhibition could be organized to feel absolutely confident about their presence world, to take part in a group exhibition?
and selected. in the exhibition. The remaining twenty-five AF: Oh definitely. As you go up the ladder the
MM: Was Ann Seymour given more or less the per cent I didn't know. I went and met them motivation to show in an exhibition like this gets
same brief? and looked at their work and got to know it as less. If you're young and desperately grappling
AF: As I understand it the Arts Council decided well as possible in the time available. for a place on the ladder you're very keen to
they would ask one person to see it through, PH: Were there people who were not selected show.
Ann Seymour, but they recommended that there or fell through the net and that you put in PH: Do you think they're right in behaving like
should be a panel of artists to advise her. As I yourself? that?
understand it this committee withdrew at a AF: That is exactly what happened. Somebody AF: I would just hope from the point of view
certain point and left Ann Seymour to get on would mention, not Tweedledee, because of the exhibition that everybody of that kind of
with it herself. everybody knew about Tweedledee, but rank would be prepared to show, but I don't see
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