Page 18 - Studio International - September 1974

any reason why they should.
MM: In the end one has to categorize, one has to
explain, or one has to look for a theme and it
might be nicer if there was no explanation, no HENRYK STAZEWSKI IN CONVERSATION WITH WIESLAW BOROWSKI
title that would mean anything but just a nice
straightforward honest dip into the activity of
painting in September 1974.
AF: You're still hung up on the fact that it's
called 'English Painting'.
MM: 'Aspects of English Painting'. We've Henryk Stazewski, one of the pioneers of Polish Europe. We achieved the possibility of
conceded what the reviews will be, they'll all be abstract art, celebrates his eightieth birthday this direct contact with them and their work. When
about the Englishness of English art. year. He lives in Warsaw and is a member of I went to Paris and found myself in the
AF: I don't know about that. You're in London UNESCO's Association Internationale des Arts environment of Mondrian, Vantongerloo, van
and you're interested in painting, you want to Plastiques. Doesburg and other painters I was overwhelmed
know what's going on in England and you go to with enthusiasm. It was the same when
this exhibition and it's great. Better that than WB: A group of Polish constructivists 'Blok' Malevich arrived in Warsaw in 1927 and
going to the Hayward and seeing some little (The Block) was founded 5o years ago in Warsaw Strzeminski organized an exhibition of his
American exhibition. and its first exhibition took place in an works in the Polonia hotel. I found out that those
MM: Exactly. But I'm against names — British, automobile salon in March 1924. You were one people were speaking my language, that they
American. of the founders of the group and co-editor of its were closer to me than all my colleagues at the
AF: You're for the internationalization of art? organ — a magazine called Blok. The group Academy, that in fact they were closer to me
MM: I'm for the non-categorizing. consisted of artists of various interests 'The than my own family. A hot atmosphere of
AF: But the circumstances themselves Block of cubists, constructivists and dispute with Malevich's Suprematism and
categorize. suprematists' but all of them adopted a common art arose. Strzeminski undertook a creative
JM: I think you mentioned earlier that you did slogan — that of the absolute construction of the dispute with Malevicz's Suprematism and
see it ultimately as your exhibition? work of art; and these artists undertook an created the most radical theory of Unism in
AF: Politically, not aesthetically. If you're an unhesitating struggle against the naturalism, painting. Besides, a number of publications on
old-fashioned 'This is good, this is bad' type of symbolism and aestheticism of the hitherto the theory of arts — Unism by Strzeminski and
art critic, you're taking aesthetic judgements and existing trends. Opposing the local Composition of Space by Kobro and
generalizing them and carrying them out into programmes of national art they aimed at an Strzeminski — and works of the avant-garde
the world. Now I've always tended to think that international 'contemporary style' and at poets appeared in the 'Praesens' and 'as.'
the first responsibility of somebody who loves elaborating an idea and artistic form of universal libraries. At the beginning of the thirties when I
art and is prepared to operate in the world at character. The programme was the basis for was in Paris with Jan Brzekowski, a poet
large, is not to try to deploy aesthetics as though `Blok's' agreement with other groups participating in the 'Cercle et Carré' movement,
they were politics in the doctrinal sense, but in representing constructivist ideas in European we undertook Strzeminski's initiative of
that sense of Rab Butler's when he said that art. The publication Blok was printing gathering paintings — gifts of outstanding artists
politics is the art of the possible. Your activity is reproductions and articles by Mondrian, of the then avant garde — for the International
to render art possible. In this exhibition there Malevich, van Doesburg, Moholy-Nagy, Collection of Modern Art in Poland. The
are really two thoughts. One is that you're Lissitzky and others. Mieczyslaw Szczuka and collection was handed over by the `a.r.' group to
informing the public; and secondly, you're Wladyslaw Strzeminski were the main theorists the Museum in Lodz in 1931. Gathering
potentially throwing open to artists notions of of the group. The latter returned from Russia in paintings wasn't easy. Some of the artists, like
how they can render their situation economically 1922 where he had spent his youth studying at Robert Delaunay, first promised to give their
viable. Wchutemas' and cooperating closely with paintings but then thought better of it. You
JM: So why now? Malevich. Soon basic contradictions concerning never could tell what would influence the artist's
AF: Well, we all know that at least since the late the idea of a work of art, understanding the decision. Mostly however, we met with
sixties painting and sculpture as autonomous function of art and its social programme surprising generosity.
activities have been under a great deal of critical emerged between the two artists. Szczuka had WB: Do you see group activity as an equal
pressure. I am interested in the repercussions, gone for an extreme idea of utilitarianism and benefit for young artists today?
the backlash if you like. It's already clear that Strzeminski for that of Unism: the first in the HS: In those days the groups were founded on
one aspect of that backlash has been a huge world formula and realization of an autonomic, the initiative of artists themselves whereas now
florescence of painting. I'm as much on homogenic and autothematical work of art. The they are organized and animated by critics,
tenterhooks as anyone about what this show's conflict led to the group's break-up in 1926. owners of art galleries and private dealers. At
going to look like. There is one thing I would Your work and ideas allowed for further that time a group was the only way of drawing
really insist on saying though, because I've been cooperation with Strzeminski. Then, together attention to avant-garde movement while today
in America this last year quite a lot and therefore with Strzeminski and his sculptress wife, there is the unlimited access to mass media. But
everything has a very sharp edge to it back here, Katarzyna Kobro, you became a member of the the idea of artistic community still has a decisive
and that is I do think that there is a kind architectural group, Praesens', left it in 1929 meaning for the creation of new ideas. People
of sharpness and a particularity in almost and became a member of a new group `a.r.' often speak of the constructivists' optimism; not
everything that is being done at a high level here. (`revolutionary artists') founded by Strzeminski true. There was an enthusiasm in the activity but
PH: Have you got any plans about the hanging in Lodz, to which the avant-garde poets enthusiasm is not the same as optimism. We
at the moment? also belonged. What seems to you to have certainly felt endangered by tradionalists as
AF: The more I think about the hanging the been the most important activity of those well as the representatives of official art. This
more encapsulated and segmented I think it will groups ? also constitutes a threat for today's avant garde
have to be. All I'm asking people to accept is not HS: The groups were creating an atmosphere of despite its apparent dispersion. The conditions
a great sumptuous aesthetic experience, but an research and an awareness of participating in the are of course different and so are the problems
experience rather like visiting an instant common problems pervading all artists of the of today's art but the enthusiasm, concern, and
museum. q avant garde in both Eastern and Western contestation of anachronistic institutions
72