Page 48 - Studio International - December 1967

I have said before, an image artist is either a rustic or a say I have beautiful dark colours. I would then be a
rascal.' decorative painter. But I'm not. Negative statements,
`Isn't a rectangular shape an image?' absolutes.... There are all kinds of things going on in art,
`Louis and Noland made colour images. Mondrian but they have nothing to do with the pretensions of a
doesn't have images. Albers made his square an image serious painter. To be a Fine Artist is a serious activity
because he involves illusion. Preference for colour has for me.'
nothing to do with the painting itself. You can like a `How do you reconcile the pure act of painting with the
yellow Albers, or a blue Albers.... I naturally went into business process of being shown? Do you have an agent?'
colourlessness. It's hard to use a light blue and not have `No, I don't. Most artists do not want to show in
it become a window or a sky.' galleries. Selling is not a real painter's concern.'
`You mean it's become trite?' `But you sell your paintings.'
`All devices—collage, everyone painting, courses being `I don't sell all of my paintings. I refused a prize
called design rather than art—all these things came from because I make fun of prize winners. There's a rotten
the Bauhaus idea. Colour has nothing to do with art. pattern of artists today moving from one gallery to
When talking about Impressionism, people talk about another. I was always connected with Betty Parsons....
colour. I was looking at a Monet the other day, and I don't think I'll show in galleries any more. That's why
when you really look at it, it has no colour. Seurat has I wanted the Jewish Museum show.'
no colour, he has tiny dots. If you want colour you have `What do you think of artists who buy their shows?'
to paint a large wall one colour. That's colour. All `Some galleries take a third, others take 50 per cent.
painting has been dark. When you model you ruin a Sometimes you have to pay for the catalogues and ship-
colour.' ping. So it's not that much more to buy space.'
`If you say you are painting colourlessness, why do you `Having a show is the only way an artist can be exposed.'
use colour?' `That's why most of us teach.'
`I use it as a device. If I were to arrange my "bands" I `Do you think the universities and colleges have a
would be back to colouring.' responsibility in this situation?'
`Why don't you just paint black?' `The Jewish Museum is interesting because it is freer
`I use colour to paint out colour. I often start out with than the others and has more contemporary artists. It's a
bright colours and then paint them out.' trend now for the universities to have contemporary
`You are not involved with religion or mythology, but shows.'
do you have a conscious intellectual theme behind your `You have been quoted as saying, "Limits in art are not
painting ?' limits"; yet you have also been quoted as saying "I am
`Yes, but I don't have an idea beforehand.' painting the last painting anyone can paint." Are these
`You indicate you don't like Surrealism, but automatic quotes correct?'
painting is part of Surrealism.' `Yes. Many of my statements seem contradictory.
`I guess I do. You almost have to ...but it isn't as if you Picasso and Monet were to have painted the last paint-
know how it's going to look at the end. All Surrealists are ings. The Impressionists were called crazy. They took the
anti-art. They are pro-something else. Pro-life. You see, worst beating. Poussin painted the last painting, and in
painting the unconscious can't be aesthetically checked. a real sense he did because Rococo and Mannerism
You can't aesthetically check someone who is painting broke up his elements. Ingres painted the ultimate....'
the Bomb.' `If you are painting the last paintings, isn't that a
`When I speak of Surrealism, I don't mean Dali; I mean limit ?'
Matta.' `Well, this is the first of the last.' We were both laughing
He turned his head expressing mild disgust. at this point.
`What do you think of an artist who is not fraudulent, `You seem to enjoy aggravating the uninformed.'
and is making a sincere expression?' `Yes.'
`Sincerity does not enter it at all. If one is not tricking `Are you experimenting in your painting, or any other
the people, or trying to attract attention, he is a hillbilly media ?'
or a primitive.' `I don't like the word experimenting, because it implies
`What is your attitude toward the concept of originality ?' some use (in the scientific sense). Artists play around,
`If someone paints my ideas, it is his painting.' He sat they don't experiment.
back. 'This question of anonymity vs. personality, `Art is not a game—playing around is serious.... Yes,
originality v.s. copying. It isn't possible to be original I'm experimenting.'
and not possible to do something that isn't original. It `How do you react to the so-called Psychedelic painting,
isn't a real issue. I'm making a painting, not for me, but to Op, Systemic, Pop Art ?'
for everybody ...what everybody should be doing.' `I'm against the mixture of the arts, happenings, blurr-
`In college and graduate school, many instructors have ing the limits.'
the reputation of giving poor grades to those who do not `But isn't the outside world of the artist blurred today?'
paint in the style the instructors prefers. Do you think a `Yes. There is no reason for art to be that way. Art is
student should be allowed to paint in the style he prefers not a part of the world.'
in order to find himself as an artist?' `Does an artist shut out the world?'
`Encouragement ? I don't know ... you can only make `Artists who paint in the street are not artists. You don't
absolute statements negatively. Positively, one would see anyone painting in the street. Do you?' He sensed