Page 27 - Studio International - February 1971

Andy Warhol as a film-maker: i Still from Lonesome Cowboys

a discussion between Paul Morrissey and Derek Hill

HILL: I thought I'd start from the difference
between your work and Andy Warhol's.
MORRISSEY: Chelsea Girls, I guess, was Andy's
basic approach to film-making: to be completely
detached, not offer any direction, and therefore
stylize by indirection. It worked with great
success in Chelsea Girls. But Andy never really
thinks of the stories or wants to think of them
too much. Because as soon as you take a story
line you take on a moral position, somewhere or
another, just by choosing—well, you always
choose the subject matter—in Chelsea Girls,
that's one thing—he can't avoid that. I'd prefer
the movies to have sort of strong stories. And I
prefer to take a position, because I'm more
comfortable that way, and Andy's more
comfortable not to.
HILL: Do you think Flesh would be quite a
different film if he had made it ?
MORRISSEY: Yes. Yes. Much different. Also
Andy is so detached in his own way from the
film that he never usually deals with singular
subjects; they're usually collective subjects like
Chelsea Girls or Lonesome Cowboys. I used to
make films by myself in 196o, '61, '62, '63 —but
they were silent films and they weren't they'd like to show them one night a week and from France and which were supposed to be
experimental or avant-garde in any way, but they started to show them one night a week and cinema-verite, which I never liked, but also
they were what they call experimental because then once a month; they showed them every Hollywood never used hand-held cameras. Still
they were self-made you know. night for a week or a month, or something, I to this day doesn't. We've never ever used
HILL: These were made with what sort of outlet don't remember what, and suddenly they were hand-held cameras; camera's always been on
in mind, just for your own... ? on the map, you know. And right around that tripod. And cameras have been moved around a
MORRISSEY: Yes, the whole self-made cinema time Andy, I think, started to go into making lot like they do in Europe, it's very prosaic, most
movement, whatever you call it, them. And then for the first few years Andy of it. And also the emphasis is always on the
do-your-own-movie, make-your-own-movie made them they were silent. His first two years performance, not the directors, which is
thing, it was pioneered by Jonas Mekas, about the pics were silent, and I don't think they were America's great contribution to film-making.
1958, '59, '6o. And he probably gave publicity hardly shown anywhere—maybe once or twice. They happened to have the best directors
in the newspaper, the Village Voice, and there When the Charles went out of business Jonas maybe, but all their best directors were people
were no outlets for the showings and then would rent like an off-Broadway theatre who subsided into the studio format of
somebody showed the movies in the store front, somehow and show films there every now and supervising vehicles for stars and the contracts
you know. Like you take a store and you just then. And then he had another off-Broadway to the studio—and I think the best films were
show movies in there, like a little nickelodeon. theatre where Andy made his first sound films, made under those conditions. And, of course,
And they look—they did as they did in an art and I met Andy at the Cinematheque where New York never had film studios. And they had
gallery actually, in East Village, on loth Street, they were showing his sound films; they'd show this old militant, silly, nineteenth-century
and they did it on week-ends and then just them for one night maybe. Maybe 150 seats. notion of the artist being some terribly
when I went down to the East Village around And he said he was making another sound film important creator, you know, tormented and
196o,'61, I couldn't find an apartment so I next day and asked me just to go up and see introspective and the director was supposed to
decided to rent this store because they're them, watch them do it. And up to that point give his all and—and it was not a notion for
easier, you don't have to climb stairs; they're he hadn't moved the camera, it was stationary, American film-making, it was a European
easier to find, they're cheaper, and you could and since I was sort of a guest there he said, 'I notion and in America it was more of a collective
turn it into a nickelodeon and I started haven't moved the camera yet, do you think I effort. But it was mainly a kind of idolatry of
operating a nickelodeon and showing other should start to move the camera ?' I said, 'Well, people who were stars, you know. And this was
people's films. There were a lot of films being you know, I'd give it a try.' Then he started Andy's early notion, that anybody found in
made but there was no outlet for them and I panning. Because this was on tripod. Basically front of one of his cameras was a super-star.
showed them for a couple of months, every Andy is known for making unconventional films That name caught on.
night. And I had 50-6o seats, and it was kinda but actually they're much more consistent with HILL: When Flesh was first promoted it was
a nice little theatre, but then the police stopped American film-making than most other films promoted with Andy Warhol's name on.
me and then Jonas Mekas asked a theatre in made in the sixties. Then after that he went in MORRISSEY: Well, you see Andy's name is
East Village, way over, called the Charles, if for hand-held camera movements which came comparable to Walt Disney's. And Andy is a

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