Page 16 - Studio International - November 1972

The last interview in:order to wreck the picture. On the contrary, I Manzoni's 'line' as concept or as social
made holes in order to find something else . . . .
motivation of art has not yet been reached by
given by Fontana I can talk about it today, because they were anybody, because it is infinity. These are
basically my ideas. They never understood. things that we come to slowly, turning back
They used to say that I ripped up canvases, sometimes, as I did. Because I have taken some
destroyed things and wanted to break the rules. enormous steps backwards in order to
Selections from a conversation with Lucio Fontana But that's not true. Look at Pollock . . . I have reconsider my position. I went through periods
recorded by Tommaso Trini on the 19th July 1968
argued with a few Americans. Once an American of decadence on my way from 'holes' to
one and a half months before his death. This
in Venice said to me, 'You're the spatialist but `slashes'. It's not that I have improved, because
conversation is still largely unpublished.
you don't understand about spaces. Who are `holes' and 'slashes' are the same thing. (. . .)
[(...)Indicates cut in the original.]
you anyway ?' Later he got to know me but did In art the revolution is social and not just
not understand anything. He found out that I visual. It is a revolution in thought. The
am Fontana and am a spatialist. 'But how can evolution of art is something internal, something
you understand space ? We've got Arizona. philosophical and is not a visual phenomenon.
There's space for you . . .' So I said to him, That is the relevance of the Futurists and the
`Look, if it comes to that, I come from South Cubists. . . . Manzoni's 'line' is a matter of pure
America and we have the Pampas which is philosophy. Even Le Parc's game in which light
twice the size of Arizona. I am not interested in destroys form is valid because the man in the
the kind of space you are talking about. Mine is street discovers that art is no longer done on wall
a different dimension'. The 'hole' is this and canvas. This way people begin to think and
dimension. I say dimension because I cannot decide whether in the future art will have a
think what other word to use. I make a hole in raison d'être or whether it will have finished its
the canvas in order to leave behind me the old usefulness. Art is a creation of man and not
pictorial formulae, the painting and the a material fact like eating and sleeping. It is a
traditional view of art and I escape symbolically, creation which at a given moment can come to
but also materially, from the prison of the flat an end or be superseded by other sciences. Art
surface. As for Pollock, and Pollock got there is only thought in evolution and if human
after the spatialists — I say the spatialists and thought should evolve into such dimensions that
not just me, because Crippa had done his works art becomes in time superficial, then that is the
with threads, and the works he did in 195o are end of art . . . Art may become so superficial that
very important — Pollock, then, threw paint on it will be, if not repudiated, at least overtaken.
to the canvas. He was looking for a new (. . .) I also did the Manifesto on television. I
dimension of space, but all he could produce wanted to have an exhibition simultaneously in
was Post-Impressionism, because he threw New York, Milan, Berlin, the whole world over,
paint onto the canvas, although he wanted to go to transmit forms. They didn't let me do it. We
beyond the canvas. Klein is the one who got together a group of spatialists. We wanted to
understands the problem of space with his blue transmit simultaneously all over the world a
dimension. He is really abstract, one of the statement, some kind of gesture, to
You see, unfortunately I am an explorer. young artists who have done something demonstrate that the whole world was
Today the young are going through a period of important, like Manzoni with 'line'. In spite of simultaneously aware of a single thought.
both crisis and evolution. We on the other hand all that the Americans are doing today they still Television did not understand, they rejected
lived during a period of fruitful exploration, haven't caught up with Manzoni. Manzoni's our idea. Only the Manifesto remains. (. . .) Will
because we had behind us some considerable `line' is still way ahead of them. That's how it is. there always be artists ? But of course there will
artists. You must be aware of De Chirico, They will understand it in a hundred years time. always be the unemployed. Let's not be
Sironi, Campigli and Morandi who brought So, the 'hole' is free space and is way in romantic . . . In 50o years time people will not
new life to painting. My experiments took a new advance of Pollock. (...) Back in 1949, the black talk of art, they will talk of other problems and
direction with the Spatial Manifesto of 1946 in spatial environment — you were talking of art will be like going to see a curiosity like the
which I said, 'We carry forward the evolution of environments — I exhibited it on its own, two rocks put together by the first caveman.
art through the medium'. That summarizes it in without sculpture. But today young artists have What were they up to ? Why did they cover
a formula. It would have been enough to leave it it easy, don't they ? But in those days a man who walls with pictures ? Today man is on earth and
at that, because to say 'through the medium' is made holes was despised, he was an idiot, a these are all things that man has done while on
to say that today art can be made with plastic or madman. But today things have changed. earth, but do you think man will have time to
light. It was just the feeling that art was no I don't claim to have invented anything. I admit produce art while travelling through the
longer to be thought of in terms of brushes and that the Futurists prompted me — time, space, universe ? He will only have time to travel
painting and restricted to canvases and frescoes. etc. (. . .) The 'ceilings' too were sculptures full through space and discover marvellous things,
It was a warning that art had changed direction of light, but they were not light itself. Now they things so beautiful that things here will seem
and dimension. I mean dimension in the sense of say, 'He's the one who did the electric light'. worthless. Today's young people too are still
profundity. Of course the Manifesto is now But why ? When I called it 'spatial concept', tied to the earth. Man must free himself
probably out of date, but it still retains some why do they have to say that it's an electric completely from the earth, only then will the
relevance. We said, 'We will use television to light ? Of others they say that they invent or direction that he will take in the future become
transmit forms through space.' I think that that renew. But about me, that I did the electric clear. Today we are still too firmly glued to the
is still valid, because television remains an light or the holes. I never understand why. And earth. And since I believe in man's
unsophisticated medium. (. . .) So, if any of my specially when I used the precise terms, intelligence — it is the only thing in which I
discoveries is important, the 'hole' is. By 'hole' `spatial concept'. It was an object and really I believe, more so than in God, for me God is
I meant going outside the limitations of a picture anticipated objects. They were objects, no man's intelligence — I am convinced that the
frame and being free in one's conception of art. longer pictures. These things have now achieved man of the future will have a completely new
A formula like: 1+1= 2. I did not make holes a perfect form, but that form is also decadent. world. q
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