Page 12 - Studio International - July August 1973

The artist as an free market should have the possibility of months ago. This union is directly related to the
selling directly to the State, in exchange for a
working classes and is also related to a very rich
individual minimum income. The change was the start of political organization. Most of the artists in this
protests by the artists against this system, and are doing commissions. They are also all
The Artists' Union in the BBK organized these. politically motivated. This group will be very

Holland Barry Martin: The structure of the union effective.
changed and the activists took control. You BM: One comment which was made to me
were already a member of the Central about your relationship with the BBK was that
Committee, which then organized many:protest it had affected your work in some way, not in
meetings and street actions. the good sense but it was stopping you from
BB: The museums in particular had a great working on your own painting and sculpture.
deal of action against them, because they were Is this true ?
seen as part of the system. The idea was that if BB: Well the people who say that it did not
the things that were wrong in the artists' field affect my work in a good way have a certain
could be shown, a discussion could ensue. The idea about what is good art, and their good art
Rijksmuseum was closed by us because it was is the art I fight against. Their goal is to have
considered the top of Dutch culture, we work on all the walls of all the museums. I am
occupied the room of the Night Watch. not interested any more in this kind of
Rembrandt is our top culture thing: if you presentation of art because it is dead art and
touch Rembrandt, you touch the top of our they are dead artists who work for the elite,
culture. A discussion happened in parliament which is already dead. I cannot understand this
because of this and the union suggested that the matter especially when it comes from so-called
minister should officially discuss art and the constructivists. Some of these are not
artist. This was the first time since the war that constructivists at all. Historically,
art in itself became a matter for official policy. Constructivism was started by people who were
The matter wasn't left there, further actions very socially involved in actions in their time,
happened, the Stedelijkmuseum was taken over especially our Russian friends Tatlin, Lissitsky,
for a week, which ended of course with fighting Rodchenko. All these worked for a revolution,
with the police. These actions spread to the the beginning of Constructivism. The so-called
Hague and Rotterdam and took many forms. constructivists of this time have nothing to do
You see all over the country we organized with this revolution; they are working for the
groups of artists in their own towns to start museums; they are in the hands of the elite.
A few weeks ago a sculpture was unveiled in discussions with other groups of people, some of BM: Is there a complacency to be seen in their
Amsterdam to commemorate Gerrit van der whom were against the official policy on the work ?
Veen, the man who organized the Kunstenaars ver building problem for example. Connection was BB: They make objects in the more or less
Zet (The Artists' Resistance) during the Second made with the Women's Liberation Front. constructive way but it has nothing to do with
World War in Holland. Through these actions the union became very Constructivism as a movement. The only
The artists of this time grouped together to well known. It was daily in the newspapers or on difference is that the object they make looks
fight in various ways against the occupying enemy TV and the union doubled its membership to different from the object that the expressionist
forces. Bob Nieuwenhuis Boneas, a thirty-five- 1200 because of this. painter makes. Otherwise there is no difference.
year old Dutch artist who has long been associated The central committee, however, did not I still make works of art recognized by these
with the Artists' Union (the BBK or increase and the union's organization became same people, on the other hand I put my
Beroepsvereniging Beeldende Kunstenaars) in very difficult, with all the paperwork and interest in another field.
Holland, told Barry Martin in a recent interview discussions with the Town Councils for I started thinking what the hell am I doing
of the aims and the problems of such an instance. Also the diverse interests of the making this object to sell through a gallery or to
organization. people making up the union presented problems. a museum ? So I started with this group to get
The discussion was taped in a small house close Our will was not always what the others a new procedure, to get work for artists in
to Leiden against a background noise created by wanted. Conflicts arose. The same sort of architecture, with building new towns and
the family and a full blown gale. Boneas conflicts which arose in 1969 when the artists shaping the milieu of the working class. It is
confessed that earlier this year, through who were better off and well known were not evident that you cannot go to factory workers
dissatisfaction with the BBK, he had helped to interested in our purpose and action. They with a piece of this so-called constructive art and
form a new union the BBKA (Beroepsvereniging reacted saying, 'you can't do that, you can't say, this is what we are doing for you. They say
Beeldende Kunstenaars Arbeiders, The change things by these actions, if you want to what the hell is that ? It is up to us to say how
Artists' Union for the Workers). change things you have to talk, you have to do can we do something for them, to talk with
it legally'. We said we couldn't do it legally them, not to say you have to take it and you
Bob Boneas: The BBK, the union for artists because we had tried it for twenty-five years and have to pay for it. I try to get this architectural
in Holland, was built directly after the Second nothing had changed. These chaps then said landscape through discussions with the people
World War and developed out of the resistance they would start their own group, their own themselves. To make a political matter out of it
against the fascists. It is part of the federation of union, and they formed the so-called BBK 69. is, I think, the basic ideal of the whole of
unions for artists, including singers, writers, We thought okay go out and form your own Constructivism. It is not the work itself; not
dancers and actors. The artists' union was set union but you will find this union against you the object as a result, it is the movement that is
up as an organization to obtain better social as an enemy. You are part of the system we important.
benefits but wasn't really connected with fight. So that was simple. We rid ourselves The fourteen million people here are
working people, it was therefore a sleeping fairly soon of them and we went our own way. composed of about two thirds working class,
union. Then in 1969 Parliament decided that The conflicts arising out of diversity of but it would be completely false to say that we
there should be a change in the regulation that interest in this larger BBK forced the activists to must work towards a situation with results like
artists who can't make enough money on the break away and form a new union about two Russia had in 1917. You have to see the thing