Page 18 - Studio International - September 1973

of convergences of that kind, which can't be always kind of manipulating everyday objects described earlier, I'd always liked movies,
accidental, occurred. The timing's too good and which is one of the basic definitions of Pop Art. always liked science fiction - I've never given
it happens too often. It means the climate of On the other hand, in his early poetry written in up any of it. And so a few years ago when I got
opinion has reached a certain point, and there are Chicago, right up to his most recent soft the opportunity to write a book about violent
only a few logical ways to go. So I think there is a sculptures, there are personal themes which movies,6 which are the kind I'd always liked
predisposition . . . not in any mystical sense . . . have to do with his sexualizing the world, best, I re-saw the movies I'd seen as a kid and
that history is pushing us in a certain way . . . making everything soft and pulpy like flesh. wrote the book based on them. For me, the
JR: We got away from discussing the He's got these personal preoccupations going book is about the way I'm like everybody else
ingredients of a movement - but there's one too. I think every artist is like that; there are and share with everyone else. On the other hand,
thought that sticks in my mind. Would you say some characteristics of his which he shares in it has a kind of touch of this more general
that the women's movement, which isn't a common with his contemporaries, and others notion that the whole of society is the province
particular style, fits the definition . . . which are uniquely his own and can't be shared of an art critic's attention. So I feel that
LA: No. I think it's quite different, because the with anybody. What happens is there are accidentally I was put in a position of some
movements we've been talking about, thus far, periods when the personal characteristics come relevance in relation to the wider culture of our
involved the convergence of some aesthetic idea closer than others to being a shared common times. And I think it has to do with not getting
having to do with painting, sculpture, thing - and that's the point at which you've interrupted by a classical education.
earthworks, whatever. It was absolutely an idea got a shared style. JR: Violent America is, of course, completely
of art and how to proceed in art. I think that the JR: Pop art was very much a movement of the about American films. Were American films
women's movement is not that. What's sixties. Is there any present movement that's as your favourites when you were younger ?
happened is that a great many women in a strong or as relevant ? LA: I've been pro-American ever since I can
diversity of styles have found they share a LA: Well, Radical Realism is the obvious remember. Whether it was jazz, clothes, movies,
common social problem. So that what they have competitor ... . painting, poetry, I've always had this thing.
in common is not the aesthetic purpose but the JR: Do you think it's as valid ? Movies is one aspect of it and Pop Art is another.
social experience of being underprivileged; all LA: I don't think it's as well-staffed with JR: Do you think the visual arts are moving in
their interests are compatible at the moment. people working in different directions around a the direction of film in the way Warhol went
Their differences are not fundamentally common cause. It seems to me a narrower from painting to movies, and the way a lot of
stylistic. If you look at the AIR Gallery, a thing, because it's not hard to do; it's a skill artists are beginning to show videotapes ?
bunch of women who chose themselves, they easily learned, and art schools have always had a LA: I don't think all the arts are moving in that
chose across style categories, and they seem bunch of people who could do it. I think what's direction. But I do think every asshole can make
perfectly compatible with one another. And I happened is that there isn't a dominant a movie now for a few dollars - and they all are.
must say that AIR and 55 Mercer, which movement really. The sixties was a period of Videotape is still primitive and arty in most
shows more women than men, have had a better exceptional high pressure, affluence, creativity, cases . . . but I'm all for it; I think something
run of exhibitions than any gallery in New York confidence, and you had a terrific succession of will come of it. I see it as an additional channel; I
this season. movements. Now the atmosphere isn't don't see it as the medium to which all the other
Something else that's interesting in women's producing that kind of thing. I don't think the arts are now going to scamper.
art is that you've not only got cutting across scene is duller or weaker . .. rather there's a JR: Do you think an art critic looks at film
current styles of art, you also get a mixture of great deal of fairly diverse activity on a differently than a film critic ?
professional and non-professionals which is continuous plane. Instead of the competitive, LA: Hard to say. The stuff I've written about
very unusual in modern art. Most art, spectacular, entertaining scene, it seems more films, I really haven't written about as an art
especially in the United States, has been very like a scene containing a great deal of continuous, critic. It's not like I'm there looking for visual
professional; everybody has been a whiz at graduated, serious work. corollaries; actually I'm looking for things
whatever it is they do. A kind of capability that JR: Then there's the inevitable question - with which are unlike art. Maybe that's the art
has protected the avant-garde even when it has no specific movement, is the scene still in New critic in me going to the movies, but I stress
been abused, ignored or put down - but the York or is it moving away ? the non-unique and mass elements of the movies
artist was secure in the knowledge he was very LA: It's not moving away at all. The collecting I write about, while most film critics are looking
good. So there was a sense of being professional centre may be in Germany at the moment, but for something more individual to celebrate.
that protected you in your poverty. And what's the production centre is still absolutely I'm very much more selective about movies
happening now, notably in the women's America - and not America, New York! than I am about going to art galleries or
movement, and in Black and Puerto Rican art New York is the centre of a revival of realism - museums. And that's because I think it's
too, is that non-professional art is being taken and I don't mean new realism, but perceptual necessary in the mass media now to get on to
as seriously as professional art; and if this realistic painting like Pearlstein and Alex Katz - real research on specific problems. I took one
continues, it could mean a real fundamental which has no parallel in Europe. It's also a of the kinds of genre films and tried to do it in
shift in our expectations of art. 'Lay Art', as I centre of conceptual art. Earthworks really only some detail. I think more studies of this kind
call it, has been around, but there's been no one thrive here in the United States on a serious are needed for all the arts. The mass media, too,
to exhibit it before. aesthetic scale. And the Eva Hesse, post- are reaching the point of sophistication at which
JR: You spend a lot of words saying a particular minimal, free-form kind of thing seems to be precise techniques of discussion have to be
artist is not part of a movement, is not part of a working here much more than in Europe. used. q
specific theory. What is your view regarding That seems to me a lot of different kinds of
seeing artists as individuals versus seeing them activity despite a current weakness of abstract Footnotes
as part of a movement ? painting. 1`The Development of British Pop', Pop Art, ed.
Lucy Lippard, Praeger.
LA: I think most people are both, that is to say, JR: Can we switch to film in these last few 'Sylvia Sleigh, painter and active member of Women
if you take any artist and want to define him . . . minutes ? You've done a lot of critical writing in the Arts.
let's take Oldenburg. In some ways Oldenburg about film which is probably unique for a 'Published as 'From Field to Arabesque', Artforum,
XI, No. 6, Feb., 1973,1% 37-41.
is a representative Pop artist - he takes subject fundamentally visual art critic. Do you treat 'See 'Notes on Op Art', The New Art, ed. Gregory
matter from the streets; he takes common it out of a purely personal interest or because it Battcock, Dutton, 1966.
objects which he transforms but doesn't break fits within this popular view of looking at art ? 'Lacks formal art school training(Alloway's definition).
'Violent America: The Movies 1946-1964, The
the thread of their original function. So he's LA: I think it's a double thing. In England, as I Museum of Modern Art, 1971.
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