Page 42 - Studio International - October 1970

4
one thing I didn't imagine. revolutionized painting. If I can cast myself
WHITFORD: Eduardo's exhibition is going to be back to 1850, or whenever 11 was, I can see that
organized, we hope, around four or five pieces Manet delivered a body-blow to the safe and
of most recent sculpture, you know, the hopper, comfortable posture of the intelligent eye. How
the bombs and so on. I think this is going to can any Pop painter be said to have had that kind
be tough, to make heavy going for a lot of of impact, to have advanced beyond that ? As
people, and it's right too that artists should make far as I'm concerned there's a slight note of
11 difficult for us. disillusionment with America now; the
BALLARD: The man in the street might not know American dream is over. I like to think that the
the difference between Duchamp and anyone Olivetti things take a cool look at a special kind
else but his sophistication, his appreciation of of pornography, the pornography of human
colour, forms and so on is enormously subtle and values. And in a way forcing people to look at a
one can almost visualize a time when the sort of state they accept, like having monkeys working
separate role of the painter or sculptor is no with computers, and also perhaps suggesting
longer necessary, when the engineer of a Boeing the kind of corporate image, the faceless man.
designs a new airliner and the shape he chooses That whole world of Fortune magazine, the
for an engine may itself contain all the ironic whole business language of the American Stock
and imaginative comments on itself that the Exchange, the faceless white-collar worker
specialized imagination of people like Eduardo turning into a mechanical man. It's not just
now provide. Eduardo can now look at some technology, it's looking with as fresh an eye as
technological object and in his sculpture give 11 possible at the whole realm of human experience.
that ironic and imaginative replay in which WHITFORD: Jim, you were suggesting earlier'
other people recognize their first perception of that the average person now is highly
that object, that first blunted perception sophisticated when 11 comes to fine art, and to
heightened and illuminated. But the day may grasping points made visually, and I don't think
come when his role is no longer necessary. But it's true in many cases. For example, there is
at present he is necessary and his graphics are still very little acceptance of the ideas to which
concerned with the nature of the environment Eduardo gave general currency during
on a complicated and subtle level. How new Independent Group meetings all those years
techniques in microscopy or a whole range of ago, when was 11, in 1952. He still puts on slide
scientific techniques are providing access for the shows of images culled from all kinds of sources
imagination to reach into the world of modern similar to the ones which took up the first part
technology and illuminate 11 for the imagination of the first meeting of the I.G. and there's still
of other people. I mean he is looking at very incomprehension, isn't there ?
complex worlds where you need a lot of training BALLARD: What kind of images are you talking
before the doors can even be opened. about ?
PAOLOZZI : The public's dilemma comes from WHITFORD: Things like the source material for
the fact that they're still looking for objects, you the Olivetti project and Bunk which is, in fact,
see, objects in the fine-art tradition, and it's this a series of graphics reproducing many of the
kind of object the public usually gets. Most of images first shown at that I.G. meeting. There
the American Pop painters fit absolutely into the is hostility even in art schools when Eduardo
tradition of, say, post-Corot painting. A gives such slide shows.
Lichtenstein is no more radical really than, say, PAOLOZZI : Art schools are in a desperate
a Manet. I mean, Manet completely situation. The students are all hooked up on
6b

138