Page 52 - Studio-International-January-1974

I saw. Here was an artist who had abstract elements you can say just permanently fixing them.
quietly and modestly continued his about everything. РК: Do you think the artist is
own way, avoiding the distractions Р K: Is it possible to separate the dependent on the epoch ?
and attractions of fashions and language from the personality ? IC: It is not that he is dependent, he is
movements, and had through his own IC: Perhaps. There was an exhibition in his own epoch. This is why artists as
intuition come to a fundamental of 'New Directions' in Paris which was first creators, in general, are people
understanding of abstract principles to be a collective exploration. I was who have a perception of the period,
which allowed him to make works of invited to participate and refused. I and in fact when there is a break it's
art that could express the subtlest told them : "You are working on when the artists perceive certain
ideas and feelings. researching vocabulary, you are things about their period and become
Camargo's first works in this making a plastic speculation looking aware that the language which they
direction were entirely informal and for a vocabulary, you are making a have inherited from the past is no
organic. They were made by placing dictionary; this is fine, it is useful. But longer of use, and cannot be a witness
the fingers in sand and capturing the I have the pretension of writing a text, to this period ; then they are obliged to
effect in plaster. The significant move of making a poem. You are working invent a new language to express this
from this was when we took a white with words, you are looking for words new perception. This is what is meant
background and with anonymous to codify, a kind of plastic by epoch ... The artist has an
elements made from cylinders of codification ; it doesn't interest me ; I immediate role and a transcendent
wood, attached them in different want, with plastic elements, to create one. In the immediate role, for
relationships to the surface. Recently, a poem, I have the pretension to example, you have a man who buys
the works have come away from the create a poem'.... If I take a the thing to decorate his house. There
wall, and are now realized in the round completely ignorant employee and are people who think that the artist's
as sculptures. The organic and the keep him in my studio eight hours a role is just that —a very decadent and
geometric appears beautifully day, five days a week, and tell him to superficial vision of the artist's role ;
balanced. The material, marble, has a speculate on the cube, he will divide it when, for example, Giotto was
clarity and softness which allows the in two, in three, in four, in five, etc. and painting his frescoes in the churches,
light to enter in the work. make a fantastic thing, but it is not it was not only meant for the
The following is a short extract from going to have any meaning. When I decoration of the church, it was a
a conversation that we had in his started working with these elements, I vision of the world.... The artist's
studio. studied their possible combinations. perception is vital because it can
IC: Many times I have been classified But I had to discard what an element change the world. For example, the
as a kinetic artist... Well, I think you could do objectively and assimilate perception of the third dimension by
have to know what is kinetic. I never completely all of its expressive Brunelleschi. Until the Renaissance,
Camargo No.399 1973
put mechanical movement in my possibilities before I could create with men had a bi-dimensional concept of
work. In fact, I think the introduction it.... I have always been very the world. They did not know that the
of very domestic technology into Art IC: That is a problem of style, not contemplative by nature. As a child I earth was round, the earth was
is infantile. I don't believe in that. language. was always fascinated by trees. I used moving. From the moment that the
Many artists have worked with РК: But you cannot exhaust a style. to remain for hours looking at a tree. third dimension was formulated, the
movement without having thought of IC: No, I do not think so, because it's What fascinated me was how a earth was no longer flat. Brunelleschi
the problem of TIME, and for me like a language. You cannot branch would come out of the trunk. I felt the need to formulate this
TIME is more interesting than extinguish a language. If you have wouldn't understand and would intuition, this perception of the third
movement. Mechanical movement something to say, you speak and the remain, asking myself, how it was dimension. Thus, perspective was
tends to have a short temporal cycle, language is alive. If you have nothing coming out, so spontaneous, so discovered because we obtained the
and becomes incredibly monotonous. to say, the language is dead. organic. At the same time so terribly perception of the third dimension, a
РК: Your art is conceived in a very РК: It seems to me, though, that it strong, so terribly clear. A tree is very dimension which has translated itself
interior manner. also depends on how subjective the strong as a plastic presence, as an in the plastic arts through perspective.
IC: You have an intuition of language is. If you take the elements identity. It was left for me, then, to and which has translated itself in the
something, you have to concretize to of your language, they are in fact very organize logically this kind of practical world through the discovery
know this intuition. You can classical. They can all be reduced to feeling.... I take an enormous amount of America. Thus, if Brunelleschi had
concretize it with your language. The either the circle and the cylinder or the of time between the idea and its not formulated the third dimension,
problem of the creative activity, square and the cube. realization. I can spend months Columbus would never have gone to
whichever one it is, is a problem of IC: But the combinations are infinite. rearranging the elements until I arrive America.
having a 'support' — a formal support РК: Exactly, and it is there, surely, at the moment of decision, of Paul Keeler
which will be adequate for what you that your language is much more than
want to say. For the purpose of simply a subjective style. It is actually
analysis, or for the purpose of speech, taking into account something that is
one separates these aspects, but in universal in its possibilities. Every time
fact, in the act of creation, in the work, you look at these works there is
they are found perfectly united. It's a something new to see in them, and
kind of symbiosis. It would be very what becomes of interest is some very
Aristotelian to start again with the subtle change.
business of form and meaning, IC: Yes, but sometimes very subtle
wouldn't it ? They do not exist. It is the changes change absolutely
same thing with space and time. One everything.... My direct problem is to
cannot say there is space and time. investigate and to work with plastic
There is Space-Time. elements. It's a very specific area of
РК: So, having established a work — the plastic field — because it
language, which has definite and creates plastic realities which,
clear restrictions, you then have the because they are made by man, are
possibility of creation. human realities. It is I who make
IC: The artist organizes his language them, others who see them. This
to say what he wants to say or can say. realization is on a plastic level. There
I can speak very easily with the is, I find, in the creative process
elements of my language, and I can another level, let us say a
say everything I want. There is a sort psychoanalytic level. I think that every
of symbiosis between me and these artist makes an emotional
elements and the work and me. transference into the object and the
РК: There is a tendency amongst object is capable of passing this
artists today to take an idea, exhaust transference on to the spectator. Art
its possibilities, and then move on to has a huge capacity for emotional
another idea. communication. Even with the most Camargo No. 405 1973
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