Page 64 - Studio International - April 1973

public point of view, of exhibitions, this we have yet MC: It comes via the Treasury and the Department roughly rectangular volumes into this old building,
to learn. of Education and Science. which is possible but immensely costly. And I'm not
RC: Why is that? sure how much it would be justified. I think probably
NR: Well, nothing so far, except for a passing remark in relation to our present needs, not. So I would
about the comparative failure of the Neo-Classical guess thatto bring them up to a high standard, but
exhibition. I mean, if people are going to speak in to retain their general appearance, would be the
these terms ... better way of using the money that's available to us.
RC: But that was a Council of Europe show. Bearing in mind that we're going to need an awful
NR : I know, but nevertheless a lot of the FUTURE DEVELOPMENTS lot of money to put up a new building anyway.
organization was done within this country. And it RC: It seems to me that the advent of the Queen
wasn't so much who did it. but that the comment was Alexandra Hospital site building provides a perfect
symptomatic of an attitude of mind. We know that opportunity to rationalize the whole schizophrenic
there are a number of exhibitions we do which don't RC: The last topic is the broadest and possibly the function of the Tate. and divide it up between
measure up in terms of attendances to what we most important of all : FUTURE DEVELOPMENTS. modern art for the new museum and British art for
believe they should have done, in the same way that Considerable internal remodelling is now taking the old. How do you stand on this, and would you
we are sometimes surprised at the attendances at place at the Tate, a whole suite of new rooms will agree that your natural desire not to diminish your
other exhibitions, like the Friedrich. And so far, open in 1975 and your Report anticipates that work own empire tends to make you disapprove of such a
although we have to budget and argue the case each will begin on the site of Queen Alexandra's Military division ?
year for future exhibitions, we have managed to Hospital in 1976. All this activity calls into NR: I feel fairly detached from this, although I'm a
survive, although this question of returns through the question the whole nature and function of the Tate. natural empire builder, as is evident. Because by the
gate is very much in the debate which we have every What will the additional galleries in the existing time this comes into being I shall be very near the
year when we come to talk about the future building be used for, and will they be followed by a end of my time as director, if not already way beyond
programme with the Department of Education and renovation of the existing rooms ? it. So that I can think quite dispassionately about
Science. Now if we are going to be made more NR : First of all, what will they be used for: the very the use of the building, and this we've tried to do in
directly responsible for our finances, this is likely to fact that we have asked for them to be designed as the discussions we've had here. Our views— really
bulk much larger, because there's a clear attitude on an almost continuous floor area, and unimpeded by it's the trustees. views as much as anybody, because
the part of the Department of Education and Science any structural features at all, was largely because they will determine this more than anyone else—
and the Treasury that we should really look to it that we had in mind that at least part of that area would are coloured by this extraordinary, as you say
our exhibitions meet their costs. Anyone who has be constantly in use for special exhibitions. In other schizophrenic set-up which we have here. Which
been in the exhibition game for any length of time words. the special exhibitions would no longer be is not entirely unenjoyable or unfruitful, in that we
knows that over a period this just doesn.t work out. held in the far part of the sculpture hall, but would have this constant relationship between the older
RA: As a collection of modern art, we feel the need move into this new gallery. It would therefore be art and what's happening now. I personally, having
from time to time to put on avant-garde exhibitions an exhibition area which is extendible almost seen a number of galleries abroad which are entirely
of the sort which we feel ought to be shown here, infinitely. One of the requirements in the brief was devoted to 20th-century art, find it a valuable extra
which clearly are going to lose money. We know that it should be so designed that we could add bits dimension. I realize I may be speaking from custom
from the beginning that they're not going to pull in a of the existing buildirig as required to create as much and prejudice ; but I have a feeling sometimes, when
lot of people. space as we needed, no matter what size the seeing the Museum of Modern Art in New York or
NR: And the national collection is really the only exhibition was. But fundamentally the exhibitions the Musée d'Art Moderne in Paris, that they are a
place where they can afford to be done. would be well contained within this new area, little separated from roots, somehow. And so the
MC: Yes : the pressure, though, is always of that indeed for most of the time it would leave sufficient Tate's oddity, I would have thought on balance, has
very abstract kind. Surely I don't need to explain space for a continuous circuit round the outside of greater benefits than disadvantages.
that the Treasury never says :'You must have an the contained special exhibition. So that's the RC: But the roots we're talking about are purely
exhibition of Van Dyck because that would be immediate use we see of the new galleries, apart British aren't they? It's a very one-sided root.
popular.' So far the pressure has been — although we from all the supplementary benefits we get NR : It so happens that they're purely British, but
have had occasional letters and minutes from underneath in the way of teaching rooms, a lecture then our British interest extends right through into
people —very remote. Each year they say you must theatre, improved storage, rooms for our new print the 20th century as well. And it is on the basis of
do better next year, and then we put in our collection and so on. At the back of this is going to this that I have always regarded there being a
estimates. be a really considerable area devoted to logical linkage between the two, if there's a linkage
MB: But I think it's fair to say that they never say : conservation, which will be a completely new at all. And it was for this reason, when I became
.You're showing horrible modern art.' installation. The present studios we have are director. that I hung the 20th-century British for the
MC: No, they never say that. temporary conversions of old underground first time with the 20th-century of all the other
MB: The only positive pressure we get is to lend galleries, and so for the first time we shall have schools. Before there had been a complete
masterpieces to politically desirable exhibitions. You adequate studio and workshop space. It will also segregation, as though the British were different.
get the negative thing in several fields : we can't get mean that all our handling facilities and so on will And to a certain extent they are. We have a problem,
a grant for a modern work, but they don't come be brought up to date. As for the old rooms. I because as Ronald has said, the British
around and say :'You really mustn't spend money on horiestly don't know what to do about them, 20th-century school is understandably more deeply
Oldenburg, or put on a Lichtenstein show.' because we've nibbled away at them over the years, and fully represented than we can ever hope to
MC: I think they would regard that as immoral. and tried this and that, but the conclusion I.m rapidly represent activities in other countries. But this I
MB: So in a way the only positive thing they do is coming to is that they are best as old rooms. They're think we can come to terms with, although it.s been
to lean on us fairly heavily every now and then. They best in their sort of Crystal Palace style, kept clean obscured by the sheer lack of space at the moment.
kept trying to make us lend Turners to Russia, for and well decorated —which is part and parcel of There.s no final resolution on this yet, because we're
instance, and as it was just about the time that their total appearance— rather than chopping them still at the talking stage, but the trustees take the
Russia refused to lend Friedrichs, and other pictures about and trying to pretend that they are different view— and I don't dissent from this —that it is
to our Charles I show, we said no. from what they are. This is my own feeling at the valuable to have some sort of relationship, whether
NR: But it is interesting that I was allowed to say moment. When everything is fresh and clean, there's it's a straight physical one or simply one of being
no. Nobody tried to persuade us—or rather, they something to be said from time to time for this idea neighbours. between the older collection and the
did try, but when we said no again, they let it lie. of using a velarium, which was introduced as a very modern one. Whether this will mean that one will be
MC: No pressure so far as I know has specifically cheap way of giving the place a rather fresh able to walk from one building to the other. I don't
related to contemporary art. One needn't think that appearance, and also, in the case of the largest know. It could be an advantage. At any rate. we are
any pressures which exist are against contemporary Turner gallery, of reducing this colossal height, fairly certain that they will be linked by ground,
art, except in the very general serise that we feel we which might have been all right when pictures were because we've got agreement to close the road
are disproportionately done by in relation to hung three deep but looked rather overwhelming between the two sites. So it will be one piece of
purchase funds and so on. when they were suddenly reduced to a single line. land : it'll be a common park. We have already
RC: Do you think that the pressures we've been You see, there are only three solutions. You can foreseen that the character of this new building will
talking about are felt more acutely by the trustees leave them as they are, you can knock them down at least iri part be quite different. to accommodate
than by you ? and rebuild the whole of the Tate to match the fourth the various activities which are of a kind we couldn't
MC: No, not at all. I think it's true that no pressure quarter —which isn't on because it would be possibly consider within this more straightforward,
goes directly on the trustees. immensely expensive and I don't think it would gallery-type building. In fact, one of the things that
RC: So it tends to come to you rather than the necessarily be advantageous—or you can put in a Michael has written into the brief is a sort of
trustees, then ? double skin, air-conditiori the whole lot and put activities tank. where there's an infinitely flexible
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