Page 66 - Studio International - April 1973

MC: I think that if they agree the sum of money can't just tell an ordinary civil servant to go and the two collections have each had a Keeper in
involved, they will not dispute the detailed proposals solve, because he doesn't know the difference charge. Before that, it simply staggers one ...
at all, no. between a Henry Moore and some religious carving MC: There wasn't even a Keeper ...
RC: My final question leads on naturally from the produced in the tradition of Tilmann NR: No. And this is why there is such a terrible
problem of the new museum. How do you, as Riemenschneider. So that in a way one needs backlog of basic work ; and the fact that we have no
members of the Tate staff, see yourselves ideally ? someone with at least some training, not necessarily comprehensive catalogue of the British school ; and
As bureaucratic civil servants who are paid basically full-time, who can do these routine jobs. why it's almost impossible to keep pace except
to administrate ? Or as frustrated observers of the RA: We act as advisers to the Customs and the through the medium of this Report, which has a sort
contemporary art scene who are forced to do too Board of Trade and even the Victoria and Albert of dateline on it, which keeps us up-to-date on
much administrating ? I know the Tate staff is small : Museum on different matters. current purchases. It's a sort of whip that speeds the
do you think you could fulfil your roles more MC: The structure of the Civil Service, in this country tired horse.
satisfactorily if there were more of you, and you at any rate, quite rightly doesn't really distinguish at RM: Producing that is simultaneously tremendously
therefore had more freedom of manoeuvre ? its upper levels between scholars and administrators. elating, because it's doing a very positive job, and a
MC: Let's go round the table... The whole notion is that those two should be one complete nightmare. Because the requirements of
RA: We are always complaining — I speak for the person. And I think that's absolutely right in relation the biennial deadline are in direct conflict with the
modern side—that we have far too many things to to us : it would be very foolish of us to regard the amount of time that is available to do the job really
do, and that too much of our time is taken up with element of administration as entirely a chore and thoroughly and properly, given the very small
administrative duties of one sort or another. So that the element of connoisseurship as entirely a joy, or number of people available to do it, and the vast
we are very often unable to spend as much time as vice versa. Administration is the essence of what we amount of other things they've got to do in order to
we should like, and as we ought, on keeping up with are—we are, after all, a national institution, and go on acquiring works in the next year—which is
what's happening in the arts, which becomes an administration is what we're here to do. We are here already in progress by then.
increasingly complex problem. I suppose this would to answer to certain requirements of the public as N R : Yes, but I do think that the position of the
be solved to some extent by having more staff : we laid down by Parliament and so on, and the outlines time-limit, admittedly related to a finite number of
have really a very small nucleus of people to do of those requirements are left to a great extent to us works, is not altogether a bad thing. Because you
these things. as the staff; and I think it would be a disaster if we know perfectly well that art historians will go on for
MB: The British side of the problem isn't nearly so were to specialize a great deal more than we do. ever if you allow them to, because they can always
great. The thing that is always left until last is the There are elements of specialization which would refine.
cataloguing of the existing collection, which can be make things easier, but by and large it would be a RM : We've got to have a time-limit: I'm not against
embarrassing when somebody comes along and mistake if the major administrative issues were it at all as such, but I am against having —as you are,
says :'you think you've got three conversation divorced from the consideration of what was a good I am sure, as well —such grossly inadequate numbers
pieces by Zoffany, but in fact one is by Wheatley painting. of people to fulfil the time-limit.
and one is by Mortimer and only one is by Zoffany.' RM : I don't think they need to be. I just think that if MC: Yes, I think that bears very strongly on what
The really awkward thing about that is that one's the staff was vastly increased within the two Richard Morphet has written in a report circulated
quite capable of making a special effort to collections for example, although everybody would among us all on the way the collection is formed.
supplement one's collection by resolving to buy a continue to take part in these administrative The issue which you raised four or five questions
Wheatley conversation piece, only to find that one decisions and thus maintain this connection between back doesn't, I guess, have to be spelled out greatly,
has one already, but it's on loan to some government administration and scholarship, they would also be except to say that a very much higher level of detailed
office and nobody has had time to catalogue it enabled for the first time to get on with the scholarly awareness of what artists were doing, and what ideas
properly. But our trouble isn't nearly so much that aspect of their work adequately. This seems to me underlay it and so on would eventually change the
we haven't got enough Keeper staff, as that whenever something which is absolutely indispensable for a purchase policy, cumulatively and over a long
we want to bring up different 18th-century pictures, national collection of this sort; and at the moment period. I wouldn't say that it would affect each
shuffle around the Blakes and show different one just can't get on with any particular project of a particular argument for each particular work, but ...
Turners or whatever, we're always held up firstly scholarly nature, because no sooner does one take RM: It's often maintained that at the time when
because of the working party and secondly because it up than another equally critical one—scholarly or radical new work is being produced it's extremely
of the conservation problem. The support staff is I administrative—demands immediate attention. difficult to identify that work among the sheer
think just as necessary as the Keeper staff. There is MC: But nevertheless it's a fact that the kinds of welter of work that is being produced in general.
more we ourselves could do in the way of chasing information which are required to purchase a work, or But I think that difficulty is one which is often
up desirable pictures. We're always waiting for catalogue a work, or communicate it to the public— exaggerated within the art world, because it is
things to turn up and we keep our ears on the whatever can be communicated other than by the largely a question of having the time and opportunity
ground. One could in fact spend one's entire day work of art in its immediate presence—are all to really get down to finding out what are the issues
going round galleries. Certain galleries will not continuous. And 90% of the administration which we that advanced artists are dealing with. Insofar as our
produce an important work of art until you've spent have derives mainly from that last one. staff is kept down in terms of numbers by forces
at least half a day there. There's an extraordinary RM : I know, but if you are simultaneously required outside the Tate, then it will be all the more difficult
progression : they first of all bring out one or two very to do this with regard to Gauguin. Sickert. Dali and for us to identify these issues at the time that they
dull pictures, and it's just by sitting it out that they de Kooning, it just can't all be done. happen. Quite apartfrom all the other issues which
finally look at each other and something more AS: But that's a question of reorganization as much we have to deal with.
important turns up. as of hiring more and more staff indefinitely each MC: Yes, but I mean obviously contemporary art is
RC: I suppose this applies to the modern collection year. changing its ideology every moment, and therefore
as well. MC: The quantity of staff obviously determines the it would seem reasonable that more consideration
MB:The modern section is more a question of amount of specialization which is available. and ultimately more people need to be involved in
keeping up with all the exhibitions, but so many of NR: When you say reorganization, Anne, I think the appreciation of it than is the case with, shall we
the things / want are sitting in somebody's storeroom. what you have in mind is the shedding of say, 16th-century art, although the actual volume of
RM : The sheer amount of exhibitions to be kept up administrative responsibilities. publications on 16th-century art may be greater.
with is barely credible. AS: No, I didn't actually. It's my own feeling that NR: I entirely agree with what all my colleagues
RA: The pressure is absolutely relentless, incessant. administratively we'd only have to fight the have said, speaking as they are principally as art
RM : And it isn't only what is put on by public administrators if we had separate administrators, historians or those involved directly in the
dealers and galleries : it's also what is on in artists' and do the work twice over. But I think we do need cataloguing of the collection. I should like to say
studios and various ancillary activities. And abroad, to specialize more within areas in which we're that it's equally true of the position of the director,
which we barely scratch interested. because he is in a sense single and therefore also
RA: We have so many other things to do. For NR: In other words, what you're saying is that you inextricably bound up in all sorts of matters—
example, I'm now saddled with being in charge of need more art historians-cum-administrators, who whether it's money-raising, or building, or God
the archives, in addition to many, many other would in fact do their own administration, to a knows what— going to meetings of this and that.
responsibilities which don't bear directly on degree. I think there is a case to be made, when an
acquisitions at all. AS: Well, I don't think that indefinitely you do need organization gets to a certain size, where you really
MB: There are jobs which need an expert, but on this. What you need is to sit down and reorganize do require either a deputy or an assistant who will
the other hand do they need us? For instance, this yourselves as a team, possibly adding some more be in effect an administrator, pure and simple.
question of imported sculpture. It has to be given a persons where desirable— supposing the area is too Because the most enjoyable thing is to be involved
certificate so that it doesn't pay tax : well, we've large, which it probably is. in the making of the collection, and in visiting
managed to make the system much less burdensome. N R : That is undoubtedly so : it's proved by past artists, which to me is almost a rarity. And this is
but sooner or later a problem comes up which you history. When you consider it's only since 1965 that nonsense : this is not what we came for. q
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